UN-ORTHODOX JEW

NEW ADDRESS-UNORTHODOXJEWS.BLOGSPOT.COM ADD"S" TO JEW

Thursday, November 10, 2005

The Rambam's Views On Gentiles, Blacks And Other "Mute Animals"

A Few Quotes From The Greatest Jewish Philosopher Who Just Happens To Be Sephardic.


Maimonides, the greatest medieval Jewish authority on matters of religion, teaches in his Book of Knowledge that it is a duty to exterminate "with one's own hands" Jewish infidels "such as Jesus of Nazareth and his pupils, and Tzadoq and Baitos [the founders of a Jewish sect active in the second century BC] and their pupils, may the name of the wicked rot."

In his Guide to the Perplexed "justly considered to be the greatest work of Jewish religious philosophy," Maimonides explains that "some of the Turks...and the Blacks (kushim = Africans) and the nomads in the South" are incapable of attaining the true worship of God because "their nature is like the nature of mute animals, and, according to my opinion, they are not on the level of human beings..."

47 Comments:

Anonymous Samuel said...

It looks like you got your full post, Ron.

Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

perplexed, no more.

smart sephardi, that rabbi.

go team, uoj.

Thursday, November 10, 2005 8:41:00 PM  
Anonymous That's Right! said...

The Rambam rocks! So controversial and doesn't give a s---t what people say. More rabbis should be like him (as if!)

Good one UOJ

Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:00:00 PM  
Blogger ron said...

I'm impressed. UOJ did something I totally didn't expect.

I expected him to either apologize, to go on a rant and tell me to piss off, or to simply ignore it.

I did not expect him to try to prove that the Rambam is a racist. Thus justifiying his own inner evil.

Even aside from the question as to the Rambams views regarding the racial inheritance of foreign people, was the Rambam referring to JEWS in that posting or to vicious tribes of men? Was he being literal or figurative?

Or perhaps you don't regard sephardim in the same categories of Jews such as yourself? Perhaps they are "untermenschen" in your eyes?

I want EVERYONE to read this post that he put up a while back.

Look under June 2005, the first entry

"Jewish Genius" - in the comments section at 5:27 pm early on you should be able to find it.

"Un-Orthodox Jew said...
They must have intermarried with ashkenazim,pure blooded sephardim aint that smart."

You are completely unrepentant. You are so full of yourself that even the concept of admitting you are wrong is beyond you.

But that's cool. I have no problem with you keeping this issue alive. The more people that see the true level of hatred in your heart the better. I want no one to be under any illusions whatsoever as to what it is that truly motivates you.

And they will see the truth UOJ. Daily. I promise. Every time your 5000+ readers come to this site, one of the first postings they will read in the comments will be mine.

Every time you come up with an article trying to pass yourself off as a crusader, my post will be there, right behind yours reminding everyone that you believe in the GENETIC inferiority of middle eastern Jews.

Every day you ignore the issue I am addressing, they will wonder, why is UOJ ignoring this, why is he brushing it off? Why isn't he denying that he believes these things?

Then they will see YOUR words staring back at them.

"must have intermarried with ashkenazim pure blooded sephardim ain't that smart"

"pure blooded".

The same phrase that the Nazis used when they murdered millions of our brothers.

It would be bad enough if you simply stuck with asserting the Racial superiority of Ashkenazim over sephardim. But that isn't good enough eh? You had to assert the racial INFERIORITY of "pure blooded" sephardim.

You are a lie UOJ. Your blog, your words, your claims, your false outrage. All of it is a LIE.

And I will be here, every day, day after day, reminding every single thoughtful compassionate Jew of that FACT.

As for those Jews whose hearts are made of rocks, and who have the minds of rodents, I could care less. Such midgets are of no relevence to themselves or the world in any case.

But the ones that MATTER. The ones that make a difference, they will begin to smell that foul odour you give off. I will make certain that they have that opportunity. Those are the people who will see my postings and turn away from you in well earned contempt.

So sorry UOJ, your cleverness doesn't get you out of it this time.

-ron

Friday, November 11, 2005 6:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

and everyone who shares the government of Israel's sympathy for Sephardic Jews who, with or without their help are socioeconomically at the bottom, largely unskilled, illiterate, Israel's underclass, will see your postings as compensation.

Friday, November 11, 2005 9:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Full Blooded Ashkenazi said...

UOJ, I dont always agree with you, but I'm willing to listen, but come on, you cant bash the Rambam! You dont like today's rabbanim, thats one thing, but to say things about the rambam is just not right.

Friday, November 11, 2005 9:46:00 AM  
Anonymous rebbale said...

Where is shlomo, gross, kelsey, and am echad?

Friday, November 11, 2005 9:50:00 AM  
Anonymous willy boy said...

uoj you should go fucking youself you sun uf bitch moder focker. you areda worst piece uf shit i ever saw in my life you will go to hel forever u r a scumbog

Friday, November 11, 2005 9:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Good jew said...

willy boy-learn how to spell

Friday, November 11, 2005 9:53:00 AM  
Blogger ron said...

Anonymous (9:32 am)

Out of pure curiosity do you have any sources which can back up your rubbish, or are you, like most of the racists on this blog simply talking out of your ass?

Bring those sources up baby, and I'll be happy to reply to your points. Until then, it's more:

Un-Informed Jew BS.

-ron

Friday, November 11, 2005 10:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Avraham said...

Ron,

I think UOJ is apologizing by posting about the Ram Bam.

What he is saying is that even the great Ram Bam had prejudices. We all have them and sometimes they slip out.

As I read your posts, I hurt for you. Obviously UOJ's comment is something that triggered your own life time of pain and hurt from the stereotyping of sephardim.

Hazal tell us to think, "What am I to learn from this?" I would say, "Wow, I didn't realize how racial comments over my enitire life time have affected me." This is more about your own personal unfinished work then about UOJ's comments. UOJ was only the messenger to help you with your own spiritual growth.

Wishing you a refuah shlema from your hurt.

Friday, November 11, 2005 11:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, for someone who claims such a wonderfull education and presented himself as a champion against those whose behavior is harmfull to the Jewish Communities, now you blog like one of those Nazi sites. Next will be a quote from the Maharal as to what blood type makes the best matzos.

Why dont you get your materials from the writers rather then quoting Jew Hate sites?

Friday, November 11, 2005 11:19:00 AM  
Blogger David Kelsey said...

I find it interesting that the Torah does not explicitly use any term in regards to race.

Obviously there are characteristics attributed to tribes and families, but that is a less sweeping generalization.

I find that lack of telling, as it seems to suggest race is not something to be taken all that seriously, either from the Left, or the Right, in contrast to the general lens most view it today, both in and outside of the Jewish world.

Friday, November 11, 2005 11:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Torah is imploding with racist comments.

Friday, November 11, 2005 11:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Simcha said...

UOJ's point is that the Rambam with all his genius had deep prejudices that the was willing to put into writing.
Ron, he is complimenting the Sephardim by referring to the Rambam as the greatest Jewish philosopher.

Friday, November 11, 2005 11:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yes, uoj is complimenting ron.

Friday, November 11, 2005 11:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

by the way, has anyone seen jesus of nazareth?

Friday, November 11, 2005 11:54:00 AM  
Anonymous yitzy said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Friday, November 11, 2005 12:10:00 PM  
Blogger Y.Y. said...

UOJ expect to die soon you think you can go on for much longer like this???

Friday, November 11, 2005 12:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

UOJ,

It seems as if Y.Y. has made a direct threat on your life. I suggest you contact the authorities. He can then be easily traced via his IP address.

Friday, November 11, 2005 12:33:00 PM  
Anonymous yaakov said...

I think that there are many today who meet the criteria of Rambam's writings. They may have manifested themselves in different bodies, but they still have the same indifferant nature when it comes to recognizing our Creator.

What makes such people differant than animals?

I don't believe that Rambam was a racist. He was a holy man who derived all his knowledge from the holy Torah and the writings of Chazal.

As far as Ashkenaz, Sefard, Iranian, American, Israeli, or European,If you're Jewish, you come from the same place. When people commited racial genocide against the Jews, they didn't discriminate either.

There is no differance from one jew to another.

If Moshiach will be a Yeminite or a Bucharian, I for one will put on my best suit and greet him with great love and joy.

Friday, November 11, 2005 12:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Y Y means that G-d will punish him.

Friday, November 11, 2005 12:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i think what yy is saying that because UOJ is now bashing our previous great sages he will be punished by heaven shortly

Friday, November 11, 2005 1:04:00 PM  
Anonymous yaakov said...

Ron:

UOJ seems to be angering you. He writes this blog to initiate a response.It's your type of dictum that keeps on feeding him.

UOJ thanks RON

Friday, November 11, 2005 1:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

y.y., how much longer can you go on like this?

omg.

wtf.

lol.

Friday, November 11, 2005 2:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

y.y.

your torah is very deep.

take a look at the rambam, the last perek in hilchois teshuvah. He is speaking to you.

Read his words and live.

Friday, November 11, 2005 2:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am not Orthodox, but I understand from Y.Y. that some Orthodox Jews become very hostile to those who don't think like them.

Friday, November 11, 2005 3:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Samuel said...

I can't be certain, but I believe that I am a student of UOJ, I attend his class in Gemara.

He is probably the most brilliant person, and the most humble person I know.

His point, in my opinion, everything, everyone says can be taken out of context.

Friday, November 11, 2005 3:15:00 PM  
Anonymous harvey said...

yaakov, If Moshiach is a Yemenite or Bucharian, I will put on a diaper and shit in my pants.

Friday, November 11, 2005 3:19:00 PM  
Blogger ron said...

I am reading some of the statements made here and laughing.

I know you are well meaning, intelligent people, but I am laughing because you are kidding yourselves.

It is funny how no one is better at fooling himself than an otherwise clever man.

"I think UOJ is apologizing by posting about the Ram Bam."

"Ron, he is complimenting the Sephardim by referring to the Rambam as the greatest Jewish philosopher."

"yes, uoj is complimenting ron."

Guys, I hate to tell you this. But that is not what he is doing.

If you want to compliment someone, you compliment them.

UOJ is not exactly what I would call a subtle fellow. Believe me, if he thinks that you are saying well, he will tell you so quite openly. Look at some of his previous comments and you will see that he is very open with his praise when he feels it appropriate.

Perhaps the sentence "A Few Quotes From The Greatest ... Who Just Happens To Be Sephardic" could, maybe, in a bizzare way, be meant without sarcasm.

But when you phrase a statement like that it is generally meant to be clever and sarcastic. For all his faults, UOJ is a clever fellow. He knows how to turn a phrase and what "sounds good" to the ear.

In any case, if I am wrong, all he needs to do is clear it up and say so. ::shrugs::

As for the idea that UOJ is apologizing for anything. Again, UOJ is not a "shy" man. He does not have trouble expressing himself either. If he wanted to apologize believe me, it wouldn't be a problem for him to express himself.

Fact is, he's a racist towards his fellow Jews, a divider among our people, hate filled, and frankly, evil.

I know that a lot of you want to do good, but you don't get good done by condoning BS. That only encourages BS and makes good look worthless.

If UOJ actually wants to apologize then I suggest the following, extremely reasonable course of action:

1. Make a simple post explaining what you did wrong

2. and that you will take steps in the future to at least ATTEMPT to make sure you don't fall into that same behavior (ie you will take on the practice of studying Chofetz Chaim daily - something everyone really should be doing anyway )

3. delete the offending remark so that it doesn't trip anyone else up.

Isn't that simple? Isn't that quick?

If he does those simple things, then I will retract whatever negative remarks I have made. I will immediately cease my criticism of him, and let bygones be bygones.

How much easier do you want me to make it?

Trouble is, UOJ is completely in love with himself. He is no more capable of admitting to having done wrong, then he is capable of sprouting wings and flying.

What's that phrase you are so fond of UOJ? Ah yes, "where there is heartburn there is chulent". Well, I think there's a whole lot of excess gas coming out from you right now, and I suspect you are a bit more vicious than anyone previously thought.

Yaakov - I appreciate your remarks, but my intentions are not to "stop" UOJ from speaking his mind.

In fact, if UOJ were to take out a full post saying openly that he believes that Sephardim are genetically inferior, I would also leave him alone from that point on too.

Why? Because my purpose will have been served - which is to warn other, well meaning Jews as to what this man actually thinks, but isn't willing to tell you.

See how easy I make it for people? No mental gymnastics are required - just some basic consistency.

-ron

Friday, November 11, 2005 3:40:00 PM  
Blogger ron said...

Samuel -

You are good guy. You mean well, but at some point you are going to learn that there will be a cutoff point.

That some things are just not to be put up with regardless of the benefits.

Note that I don't say "have to learn" or "should learn" but that you "WILL learn". I say that because you are clearly decent and well meaning, and eventually people such as yourself figure things like that out.

When it comes to making a statement such as the one UOJ made - that is the kind of thing that you must NEVER EVER put up with. You don't have to be rude, you don't even need to disagree. You can be as simple as quietly excusing yourself and leaving the room.

To give an example of unacceptable behavior. Anyone who makes a crack about Polish Jews is in direct violations of the laws of slander as laid done by the Chofetz Chaim, and as such is not fit to be a teacher of students.

But I get the impression that you are young, and that gives you time to figure these things out for yourself.

Be well my friend.

-ron

Friday, November 11, 2005 3:49:00 PM  
Blogger ron said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Friday, November 11, 2005 4:30:00 PM  
Blogger ron said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Friday, November 11, 2005 4:33:00 PM  
Blogger clicking4man said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 4:35:00 AM  
Blogger ron said...

There's another point I want to address in reference to what the Rambam is quoted above to has siad (assuming the quote is accurate, which I do not assume since I have only UOJ's word for it and his word means nothing to me).

Rambam lived at a time when Jewish communities were being exterminated in the hundreds by Crusaders. Women and children were raped and butchered by those madmen. In England no Jews were permitted, and less than 2 centuries later the Inquisition was formed and the entire Spanish Jewery was either murdered, forcibly converted, sold into slavery, or, if they were lucky, managed to get out with whatever they could carry on their backs. They were not the Christians of today, and only a fool of UOJ's caliber cannot see the difference.

Furthermore, Richard the Lionhearted massacred large numbers of Jewish civilians and Muslims in Acco and throughout Israel. In another instance, when the crusaders originally took Jerusalem they wiped out all the non-christian inhabitents and set fire to the synogogues.

In light of that, it would not shock me that the Rambams view towards Christians would be extremely harsh and unforgiving. Again, this is assuming he made those statements.

But UOJ has no real soul, or heart, or compassion. He seizes on anything he can to look at our people in a negative light. Like a child, or a halfwit, he only sees things in reference to his immediate surroundings. The concept of looking at the circumstances of a mans' word is beyond him.

The second interesting thing I'd like to point out, is that unlike the Rambam who published his writings in his own name, and took the consequences, UOJ hides behind a pseudonym. It is easy to make statements in a country in which you are free and even easier when you do not attach your own name to it. No consequences are to be faced. But for the nameless to criticize the named, that is just one more sign of his insufferable arrogance.

-ron

Saturday, November 12, 2005 6:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

insufferable?

you keep coming back for more and why? To defend your own honor.

You take yourself and your family's pride a little too seriously.

Dedicate your life to helping Sephardic youth. Support Sephardic studies at the Center for Jewish History. Prove him and all those dirty ashkenazim wrong through achievements, else, lighten up.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 6:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Samuel, if you think you attend uoj's gemara shiur, do us all a favor and share the schedules.

We want to learn.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 6:55:00 PM  
Blogger Y.Y. said...

anon.
i looked at the last peirek in hilchot teshuva in rambam but ijm clueless to what you meant he is talking to me

Saturday, November 12, 2005 8:11:00 PM  
Blogger ron said...

Anonymous 6:54

Those are good suggestions. I will do all those things. But in my view there are no "dirty ashkenazim". There are just honest Jews or dishonest Jews. Family lineage doesn't determine anything.

As for why I come back for more, someone has to answer this person and to warn off people who would be misguided by him.

You are clearly not going to do it, so I will. But thanks for the rest of your advice.

-ron

Saturday, November 12, 2005 8:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

clueless,

Maimonides, the smart sephardi with a good bloodline, speaks of those who serve m'yirah...in a particular way.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 10:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ron,

you are doing a great public service.

Devote the rest of your life to this important cause and you won't be ripping off your employer wasting your time during work hours.

Saturday, November 12, 2005 10:31:00 PM  
Blogger ron said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:15:00 AM  
Blogger ron said...

anonymous 10:31 pm

You will be thrilled to know that I work freelance then. Which means, my time is my own.

:)

Don't worry, over time I'm going to stop responding to every reply in the comments section and will just stick to a basic "reminder comment" to every post. For now though, it is entertaining.

-ron

Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:18:00 AM  
Blogger ron said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

UOJ is a yeshiva product. He knows what he has been taught by others. Blame his culture, not him.

UOJ is actually a tsaddik in pelts. Attribute his flaws to ashkenazi weather patterns.

Monday, November 14, 2005 10:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

who says the moreh is justly the greatest work of jewish religious philosophy?

Monday, November 14, 2005 10:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why dont all you losers go out and get a life?

Friday, May 12, 2006 4:02:00 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home