Thursday, December 22, 2005

Kosher Electricity-What's Next?

Gedolei Yisroel Call for Reinforced Efforts to Use Kosher Electricity on Shabbos

by A. Cohen

Gedolei Yisroel including Maran HaRav Eliashiv, shlita, signed a letter of encouragement for the askonim who are making marked progress toward plans to install a Shabbos generator for the entire city of Modi'in Illit.

The letter was written by HaRav Eliashiv and his signature appears along with those of HaRav Aharon Leib Shteinman, HaRav Shmuel Halevi Wosner, HaRav Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz, HaRav Nissim Karelitz, HaRav Chaim Kanievsky and HaRav Shmuel Auerbach. "It is a great mitzvah," read the letters, "to assist the activists who committed themselves to this important matter of strengthening Shabbos observance by supplying the city of Modi'in Illit with electricity on Shabbos generated without chilul Shabbos, which is an act of kiddush Sheim Shomayim."

The gedolei Yisroel who signed the letter attach great importance to kosher electricity in every place with a large concentration of chareidi residents. "It is well known how [strongly] Maran HaChazon Ish zt"l [opposed] the use of electricity generated through chilul Shabbos Kodesh. And it is kovod Shabbos for the botei knesses and streets as well to be illuminated by electricity kosher for Shabbos."

The letters ends, "And may all of those helping toward this effort be blessed with the blessings of Shabbos, which is the source of all blessing. As is stated in the Talmud Yerushalmi, `"Bircas Hashem hi sa'ashir" refers to Shabbos' (Brochos, Chap. 2, Hal. 7), "and may the merit of the tzaddik [the Chazon Ish] protect all of those assisting in this matter to be blessed with all of the blessings written in the Torah."

The letter was written at the end of Tishrei following progress in setting up the electrical plant in Modi'in Illit. Recently the plan took another major step forward when City Council Head Rabbi Yaakov Guterman met with top officials including Electricity Authority Chairman David Assos, Electric Corporation's CEO Dr. Yaakov Ratzon and the assistant directors in charge of planning the generator project. At the meeting the two sides signed an agreement on the construction of the plant.

Electric Corporation heads said they were pleased over the letter by maranan verabonon, which was presented during the course of the meeting. They pledged to work to have the Shabbos power plant in operation as soon as possible.

The Modi'in Illit project is expected to serve as an example for other places with large chareidi populations.

UOJ Comments

The Charedis' coffers are dead broke.
The organizations are corrupt from top to toe, stealing, yes stealing from the government and fraudulently raising money for people and causes that are non-existent. Who is dreaming this shit up?

Do people stay up at night thinking what other chumras we can slap on to our followers? Boasting that R' Elyashiv signed his name to this "important" cause, tells us how OUT of touch he is with the reality around him.
He is suppose to pasken for us in America, when he is clueless as to what is going on in his own backyard???

Kosher electricity is on it's way to Monsey, Boro Park and Flatbush while we are probably eating non-kosher food. I'm certain that's what the Chazon Ish had in mind.
Any more window dressing coming? Any more cover-ups of the real problems, by changing the subject?
This is sickening!



Blogger frumboy said...

R' Elyashiv is on your good guy list. Stop cursing out people who are much greater than you. Its one thing if you want to curse Marguiles, but R' Elyashiv is on a different league. UOJ-are you trying to turn people into conservative jews?! What is wrong with you!!

Thursday, December 22, 2005 3:19:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

The guy is surrounded by assholes, OK?
They are feeding him with all kinds of crap, don't you see that?

Thursday, December 22, 2005 3:34:00 PM  
Blogger frumboy said...

Fine, dont attack him

Thursday, December 22, 2005 5:09:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

On second look at the names of the "gedolim" that support kosher electric, I have to suspect that these guys are ALL suffering from some sort of dementia.
The average age of these guys have to be about 85.

Someone should tell them it's time to wrap it up; send them all to New York and put them up in one of the Bergman's family nursing homes where they will not be able to inflict any more damage to the Jewish people.

They'll be frozen in no time.

Thursday, December 22, 2005 5:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...









Thursday, December 22, 2005 5:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I gotta say I also agree with anon and fb above..

ou, your implication against r' elyashiv was below the belt even for you..

ya just gotta be careful with how you throw around your critism.

the minute you start "shtupping" too much, even discrediting the good guys, your gonna lose "ne'emonus" (sorry, I couldn't think of a better word here...)with your comments and observations on the true charlatans...

Thursday, December 22, 2005 6:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i agree...

save the shtupping for the bedroom...

Thursday, December 22, 2005 6:07:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Now I know you guys are paying attention.
The last few post received few comments, which pisses me off.

R' Elyashiv needs a screener.

He should NOT be signing every piece of toilet paper that they shove in front of him.

It reminds me of the crap R' Moshe zt"l used to sign.
Enough already with using these guys for phony chumras! ENOUGH! ENOUGH!

Thursday, December 22, 2005 6:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i thought that the chazon ish's chumra regarding electricity was only applicable in israel, where the electricity is created through chilul shabbos (i.e. - it's jews working in the power plant). however, it doesn't apply in america because the electricity is non created through chilul shabbos (non-jews are working the plants). have you really heard it's coming to monsey, etc.?

Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:32:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

I was being sarcastic, but chumras can be implemented anywhere, why not?
Rov Charedim will NOT mail a letter erev Shabbos because there's a chashash a Jew may handle it on Shabbos regardless of R' Moshe's psak permitting it.

FYI, Yiden in Israel are not in the power plants, it's the Arabs.

Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Inquirer said...

Serious question:

What makes someone a Godol? What is so untouchable about R' Elyashiv? I understand Moshe Rabbeinu's greatness. the Tannaim, the Ammoraim - I mean these people performed miracles. They authored Shas and are responsible for Torah today. What I'm trying to say is, how has R' Elyashiv and R Shteinman's greatness encompassed all of Klal Yisroel? I understand the Rambam's greatness (but was it limited to intellectual superiority? How does one know? It was a long time ago and the only witness is his writings) and R' Moshe Feinstein Z"L's to a point. He was a brilliant Posek who had a deep, deep, sensitivity towards Klal Yisroel. He learned Yomom Vleayla in the Lower East side yet was able to touch everyone.

Someone please explain.


Thursday, December 22, 2005 8:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Boog said...


I have to agree with the previous comments; attacking Harav Eliashev is going over the line.

He does have a few flunkys around him whom I will not name, which is unfortunate, but a reality. The same was true with Rav Moshe ZTZ'L who had a few shtinkeroonies surrounding him, limiting access to him, and feeding him info that supported their agenda. Example: Whether it is halachically permissable to make an Eruv in Brooklyn. We're seeing this play out again right now between the Pro and Anti Eruv groups.

I believe that you mitigate your effectiveness when you go so drastically overboard and attack the wrong person(s).

Stay focused on the right targets. They're plenty of them.

Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:16:00 PM  
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Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:28:00 PM  
Anonymous gross said...

I have to defend UOJ on this one guys.

He did not attack Rav Elyashiv. What he stated was accurate. Rav Elyashiv HAS lost touch with reality. His shmucky assistants have usurped control from right under him. They feed him whatever BS they want to and he buys it - unaware of their motives. It's a fact and was evident during the Making of a Gadol banning fiasco.

Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

conservative jews are arabs, right?

Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:52:00 PM  
Blogger happywithhislot said...

i agree about who surrounds him. They are obviously not very busy learning because every day they are coming out with new letters.
Just today i read that they banned inflight movies.
That they needed to come out with a ban shows me that some people have too much time on their hands.
Soon they will come out with a ban on visiting houses of ill repute,

Friday, December 23, 2005 12:14:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Here is my position on Israeli Gedolim.

They have no idea what is going on in the real world, and therefore have no right endorsing or banning anything that they "themselves" don't have first hand knowledge of.

Being machmer is easy; to be a godol is to understand the needs of the klal, what the klal is capable of, and rule within the paramaters of halacha.

The gedolim are lamdonim and most of them are tzaddikim, but knowledgable on mele d'alma, NADA, NOTHING.

For them to come out with such brute force for metziza as babies are getting sick and dying, is proof positive that they are living in a world that has no connection to reality.

Anyone can find a doctor a lawyer or a scientist to say anything, even that the world is really only 5000 years old.

Really, mamish, really, really mamish.

Friday, December 23, 2005 12:16:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Boog, Gross,

R' Elyashiv today is doing more harm than good to the ENTIRE klal, that includes all jews from all stripes.

Friday, December 23, 2005 12:19:00 AM  
Blogger David Kelsey said...

UOJ and Gross,

Not to be cynical, but if a man trusts those who aren't trustworty, doesn't that make him untrustworthy?

Friday, December 23, 2005 1:07:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...


Good point. I do believe R' Elyashiv is a good and honorable man whose time has come and gone as a posek for contemporary issues.

Not untrustworthy per se, but certainly not knowledgeable of the world we live in and it's issues.

Friday, December 23, 2005 10:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Frum From Birth said...

uoj, kelsey, gross, et al..

only now are you guys changing the tone of ouj's orginal content on this thread which CLEARLY implied that he was lumping R' Elyashiv together with all the other frauds he targets on this forum.

THAT, is what I believe people here were taking exception to....

What you guys are saying now about his handlers and lackeys is very true. However, it is also an unfortunate reality for a man of his age and position...

Much of what you guys say is true and spot on, but when you start getting carried away with yourselves and proceed to try and invalidate people lke R' Moshe z"l and YB'L R' Elyashiv, you are just making asswipes of yourselves.

Even the people who crave your rhetoric and appreciate your whistle blowing are going to be turned off by this kind of crap from you guys. (I mean this with no malice, it's just the truth..)

Oh... and to the "inquirer" above, you sound like a friggen Maskil you poor shlub. Who the hell do you think you are to cast aspersions on the Rambam!!!, R' Moshe??? Is nothing sacred to you, you dumb SOB!!

In the immortal words of Radio talk show host, Bob Grant; GET OFF MY PHONE!!

Your a disgrace to any brand of Judaism.

Its blowhards like you who give us all a bad rap. You even sound like a typical yeshiva bochur standing in the hallway with his hands down the back of his pants, trying to "shatz" up the "erech" of the Rishonim and Acharonim in terms of "chashivus" and "gadlus".

You actually hide behind your filthy computer screen in your rat infested basement, talking about the Rambam; analyzing whether his "intellectual prowess" blured the lines and distorted his lack of true chashivus!!!??

The unmitigated gall of you to talk this way.

I know your kind. I could smell it in your writing.

Your the meek wussy who sits in shul scared of his own shadow. The computer screen and its protective cocoon of anonymity affords you the ability to spew your rotten bile.

If I knew who you are I'd come ring your scruffy neck!

Whew...thanks OUJ for the opportunity to vent, I feel much better now!

Friday, December 23, 2005 10:37:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Where do I send the bill?

Friday, December 23, 2005 10:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Frum From Birth said...

Hey Guys,

Couple of spelling mistakes in my above post, just because of my frustrations while typing...

Of all the posts I've seen on this blog to date, the post by "inquirer" above has my blood boiling..

I promise, if I knew who you were I'd come cut off your beitzim.

You wanna be that classic Flatbush wussy who lives in the 20's and outwardly looks like a model jew with a wonderful family, while inwardly harboring these kind of perversions...FINE.

In shul I'm sure they have to put a feather under your nose to see if your breathing...at home in front of your computer is where you make your transformation.

If you have nothing NORMAL to contribute here, besides for your sicko/psyco comments about the Rambam and Rav Moshe, then why don'y you just keep surfing for your kiddie porn fix and stay away from OUJ's blog.

You menuval...

Friday, December 23, 2005 10:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Inquirer said...


YOU are the one cating aspersions on my integrity and making silly assumptions. My question - and the comments about the Rambam was a question - and in no way belittling the people I mentioned. I was simply asking what makes someone a "godol?" Is it the large following? Word of mouth? Acts of greatness? Performing miracles?

Your weak attempt at profiling me has failed misearably. You probably fit that profile more than I do.

A little about me:

I was raised in Flatbush on a humble block, far from the world of the 20s, in a large, Yeshivish -oriented family. I was always a non-conformist; I remember as a nine-year-old kid, wearing my teal green suit on Shabbos while my friends wore black and navy. One of my best friends (and we're still acquainted today) was Matthew, the Catholic kid on the block. My brothers always warned me: "He's really an anti-Semite. You'll see, in a few years when he grows up he'll want to kill you. Needless to say they were wrong.

I had trouble at home (it wasn’t paradise to say the least) and in Yeshiva too - the Rebbeim said I was too smart for them. They told my father that their "tricks" don’t work on me and I have too many questions and an answer for everything. One Rebbe suggested I get "petch" at home and that would set me straight. When the Menahel couldn’t deal with me he threatened to send me to “Chush.” He said that once I was there I would automatically become stupid. I believed him; I was only in the third grade. I took an aptitude test and my scoring indicated that I was on a comprehension level of a 15-year-old. College was for Matthew but I didn’t care. I knew what I wanted to do once I was out of Yeshiva.

Anyway, I attended a very mainstream, popular, Mesivta. It didn’t exactly work out. I was asked to leave. One of the reasons was “people saw” me without a hat on Shabbos morning in Shul (I lived near the Yeshiva.) Physically, I look nothing like you imagine. Although I don’t look like a “bum” you could never tell I went to Yeshiva X and grew up in Flatbush.

My tenth grade Rebbe couldn’t stand me. I asked him in a serious manner if he though that “skila” was a harsh punishment for someone who was Michalel Shabbos. I know the answer now but apparently he didn’t. I also wanted to know where it says women can’t pasken a Shaila. He didn’t have the answer.

I am married now; I graduated from a very prestigious college not a business-oriented college but I can’t say which one because I already gave you too much info and I don’t want to blow my cover.

I am known and always have been known to say what is on my mind.

One last point:

I attended R’ Yaakov Kaminetzky’s funeral. I understood his greatness and I was nine at the time. As far as R’ Elyashiv and R’ Shteinman, I never heard their name mentioned throughout my time in Yeshiva. Ok maybe R’ Elyashiv once or twice but it was never discussed what he does, where he is, why he’s a gadol….

So know that you know a little bit about me, perhaps you can address my original questions.

I’m sure my post is rife with typos and grammatical errors but I am not bothering to proofread it.

Shabbot Shalom

Friday, December 23, 2005 1:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Frum From Birth said...


O.K. I do apologize.

Nice to see though that you were just as eager to get in the mud with your disingenuous come back to me about how "I probably fit the profile" I painted...

Thanks for sharing your bio. it sure is interesting. You've obviously gone through alot of life experiences growing up.

We all do.

Past all of the extra gravy I threw in, asserting my creative licence, at the very core of it I was merley responding to what I (and others) probably viewed as a smack in the face to the Rambam and R' Moshe. Two people who'se very toenails you and me couldn't even begin to touch.

Sure, you asked a "sincere question". However, it reeked from an agenda and not a bit of underlying bitterness.

Your backhanded compliment of R' Moshe, (as if he somehow needs you to validate his legacy and greatness)and your questioning of the Rambam's greatness stunk from hubris and was completely off base and wacko.

I could not fathom that these comments were purely motivated by your "desire" to "understand" the makings of a gadol.

If I was wrong or presumptuous, then I'm sorry.

I just think you would do yourself a favor by showing a little bit more respect for the jewels in the crown of our people.

Have a good shabboss yourself. For all I know we might even sit next to each other in shul..

Again, thanks for sharing your interesting bio.

No ill will here.....

Friday, December 23, 2005 1:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Frum From Birth said...

To answer your original question (not that I feel I am the holy grail here on what constitutes a gadol....)

To be a true gadol, one would probably have to meet more than a few criterion.

I would think this would be a person whose desire in life would be to be mekadesh shem shamayim through word and deed. He would be a person that would influence other jews of all backrounds and affiliations to live properly, each on their own level. He would be unfazed and unfettered by the tentacles of gelt, corruption, and kavod. He would look to do what is right, not what is fashionable and politically correct. He would pray on behalf of all jews for the things that they NEED, and not necessarily the things they WANT. He would be a scholar of note learned in our holy books. He would be a Y'rei Elokim in the truest sense of the world. He would leave this world a better place than it was before him. He would leave a lasting legacy and impression on our people.

He would be the type of person that regardless of your backround or degree of relgiousness, you would look at him and be proud to be a jew.

I think the aforementioned is a good place to start. What do you think, Inquirer?

Do you agree?

What do the others on this board think?

Everyone is more than welcome to chime in here.

Good shabbos to all!

Friday, December 23, 2005 1:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Inquirer said...

I sort of understand your assumption but I'm not clear on how you reached the profile.

You still haven't answered my well-intentioned question. As a human being I am entitled to question whomever I please even if the subjects(s) don't come up to my toes (and you're probably right about that in more ways than one)

If you can't handle answering a question and discussing the "greatness" of said Gedolim then perhaps you are ill-equipped to address the issue. Either way I hope you are not in Chinuch. The point I was trying to convey was:

there are millions of stories one can tell about R' Moshe, never mind his brilliance. But as far as the 2 Israeli Rabbis I mentioned, I wanted to know if they are merely outstanding Rosh Yeshivas (Are they even Rosh Yeshivas? I don't know)or are they saint-like. And how. I sort of though that we relied on them to fill the void and the role because of the lack of Gedolim like R' Moshe, today...understand?

Your attack was a turn-off but no hard feelings either. In regards to your "creative license" that was FAR from creativity- the Bob Grant reference was a cliche if I've ever encountered one.


Friday, December 23, 2005 2:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Inquirer said...


I was writing the previous comment before you posted the one at 1:56. I thought your 1:45 comment was the complete response to my Inquiry.

I accept your idea of what makes a Gadol and I am assuming R' Elyashiv and R' Shteinman meet those criteria.

And if so, then I as well, will consider them a Gedolim.

Thanks and Good Shabbos too.

You see what you can accomplish by being nice? ;)

Friday, December 23, 2005 2:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Frum From Birth said...

and NO... I don't think a gadol has to be one who performs miracles..let's leave that for the comic books and for the Pope.

When you say "word of mouth", I'm not sure I know what the hell you rae talking about here...?

What, just because I say someone is a gadol, does that make it so???

Of course not!!

Bottom line is that your "question" was/is a loaded one to begin with.

It would have been easier to address properly the first time if you didn't lead many people (I'm sure) reading it to feel like it wasn't purely and sincerely motivated.

Statements like "what is so untouchable about R' Elyashiv" your dismissal of the Rambam as possibly being just another intellectual superstar, and your backhand recognition (maybe) of R' Moshe didn't help your cause.

But I digress....

All the best!

Friday, December 23, 2005 2:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Frum From Birth said...

I know isn't it great to be nice!!

Your making me all weepy now.

I'm gonna get out my guitar so we could sing kum ba ya!!

Friday, December 23, 2005 2:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Inquirer said...

What I meant by "word of mouth" is Yeshivishe hock about " this Gadol" and that Gadol..." you know the bored talk among the Yeshivish shmucks who congregate in the Bais Medrash (Mesivta memories - I never attended a day of post high school Yeshiva, not that I am proud of it) just talking about the whole world from a naive perspective and formulating lifelong attachments to stupid ideas...

Friday, December 23, 2005 2:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Frum From Birth said...

I actually alluded to this yeshivash "hock" crap in my first response to your orignal post.

Not to beat a dead horse here...but what I said was that you actually sounded like that yeshiva boy in the hallway that you loathe...

And yes, of course the fat assed acne riddled batlan standing in the hallway with his greasy hands down the back of his Perry Ellis trousers is not considered to be any type of authority on what constitutes a gadol, except to be a model of what IS NOT A GADOL.



Friday, December 23, 2005 2:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Inquirer said...

I missed a crucial point. The reason this topic resonates so strongly in me is because I CONSTANTLY questioned various Gedolim as a kid, to my father (a HUGE and rather well-known talmid Chochom)and various Rebbeim.

I posed the following: What is so great about so and so? Haven't we learned that he was gifted from a very young age and finished Shas a million times "before he was out of diapers?" So what! Big Deal! The guy was super gifted and it clearly came from Hashem. Should we be so in awe? It obviously came naturally and you and I can never be like him so we are by default on an uneven playing field with these giants.

When I finally matured I realized the truth. The R' Moshes and R' Yaakovs were probably regular people at one point who probably misbehaved in class, ate too many sweets and...you know the rest....

But we're not allowed to know this. We are taught to believe that these people - albeit great people - were in fact Malachim. That's why The making of a Gadol was banned!

Friday, December 23, 2005 2:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Inquirer said...

Take care - and don't flip off the conductor know matter how upset you were over the strike!

Friday, December 23, 2005 2:28:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Baw Shabbos, baw menucha.
Shabbat shalom.

Whew-two smart guys going at each other, both have very valid points.

The Besht for example, was he a gadol? He certainly did not know shas.

When was the last time anyone had a direct personal conversation with R' Shteinman?

I did, for an hour uninterrupted, he is clueless on contemporary issues affecting Yiddishkeit, and should NOT be paskening shailos in that realm.
Is he a gadol? He's certainly a baki b'shas and poskim.

How about R' Chaim Kanievsky? A gaon atzum, does he know children are getting sick and worse in the U.S., directly linked to Fisher ??? Of course not!

How about R' Moshe Tendler? A gaon atzum as well, also a genius in mele d'alma, is he a gadol?

Was J.B. a gadol??

Friday, December 23, 2005 3:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Boog said...

Intelligent conversation.

UO, if this keeps up your blog will get a "bad name".

A Gadol and Manhig B'Yisroel is one who is by consensus considered to be so and who is leaned on for hadrocho and Psak.

Think about it; Ad Meah V'Esrim Shanah, when a Gadol leaves us it is as if by intuition that Klas Yisroel knows instinctively who turn to, to pick up the mantle.

BTW, FFB and Inquirer, Hope you guys were off from work today and were not conversing on your Bosses time. Because if you were, that is a Choshen Mishpat No-No and may very well subject you two to be the focus of a future Blog on this channel.

Shabbat Shalom.

Friday, December 23, 2005 3:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Inquirer said...

I am self employed and my only boss is God. Even if I weren't what makes you think I have a Jewish employer?

Saturday, December 24, 2005 7:36:00 PM  
Anonymous seeker said...

The question as to what is a gadol is a great question? THe answer you get from yeshiva are all the same "hock". Which used to frustrate me as a kid because i could not meet the criteria. This is the problem.THe imagined image of gadlus and the reality.The yeshiva world needs to promote their viewpoint,it sells. However the gedolim ive known all had good sense of humors,did not consider themselves with any special abilities,and had a keen sense of
reality.Above all they had derech eretz.They advised students to work on their middos, learn with great hasmoda,and take some time off to be kind to yourselves.
Your human.Its sad when kids feel that gadlus is unattainable because of the fairy tale story books.Gedolim struggle like everybody else financially, children and their environment. Its called being human.A novel concept to the writers of gedolim biographies.The reason why Making of a gadol was banned because it contained some element of humanity associated with gadlus.This of course can't get out.However, i also feel the gedolim need their privacy, and not every private moment needs to be told.Also, gadlus comes in many forms. Learning, middos, honesty,and a kindly disposition.

Saturday, December 24, 2005 7:49:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

If your boss is a Gentile, does that permit you to use his time for personal use?
Just asking.

Saturday, December 24, 2005 8:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Inquirer said...

Absolutely not! However, that is not (I'm not 100% sure but I think so) a "Choshen Mishpat No-No" as "know-it-all-boog" remarked.

Saturday, December 24, 2005 10:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Boog said...

You're not 100% sure, Inquirer, so then what is it?

Yilamdeinu Rabbeinu.

Saturday, December 24, 2005 10:17:00 PM  
Anonymous sechel said...

Back to the point of the post.While respect is due Gedolim,when you continue to see teshuvos that seem so odd you are allowed to question.As for R.Elyashiv there is a limit of saying 'its the people around him'.
One of the greatnesses of R.Yaakov Kamenetsky that he decided in his eighties though completely sharp not to pasken further.

Saturday, December 24, 2005 11:04:00 PM  
Anonymous sechel said...

How is it you state R.Moshe Tendler but then state just J.B.
R.Tendler was one of his talmidim.

Saturday, December 24, 2005 11:10:00 PM  
Anonymous use your sechel said...

J.B. is an acceptable term of endearment for him.

Sunday, December 25, 2005 12:53:00 AM  
Anonymous sechel said...

no its not.Would you call R.Elyashiv Y.S.E. ?
RYBS is acceptable.

Sunday, December 25, 2005 9:27:00 AM  
Anonymous use your sechel said...

Among JBs followers this is accepted. I attended a Yeshiva (mainstream) where we used to call the Menahel by his first name, preceded with a "Reb." If I did that in another Yeshiva I would have been promptly ejected.

Sunday, December 25, 2005 11:29:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

J.B. is a term of endearment, that is how the world that loved him called him.
However I do see your point, I stand corrected.

Sunday, December 25, 2005 5:12:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

R' Yaakov did pasken for his closest talmidim until his last days, but you are right he knew when to call it quits as a full time posek available to the masses.

P.S.- he did not consider himself a posek in the way it's used today.

Sunday, December 25, 2005 5:17:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

P.S. I feel R' Elyashiv should not get involved in issues that he himself is not fully familiar with.
You're right, there is only a certain amount of blame one can put on his shamossim.

Sunday, December 25, 2005 5:20:00 PM  
Anonymous sechel said...

Thanks for your comments.

Sunday, December 25, 2005 9:31:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...


An appropriate name for yourself.

Monday, December 26, 2005 10:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Frum From Birth said...


Hope you had a nice shabboss.

Don't know if you should have said your father is a HUGE talmid chochom and noted Rav...

Putting together this info. with everything else you had previously said...I'm thinking I know exactly who you are...were almost the same age you and I....also flatbush kid...etc.

If my hunch is correct (and it is irrelevant..) then I have much respect for you, you are a good man...

In any event, I could not agree with you more on the sicko "jewish" publications on our Rabbi's and leaders that make it out to sound as if they already mastered shas while still nursing.

These lowlife scum are attempting to inculcate in our children the idea of striving for spiritual greatness!!??

Well then how the bloody hell do they accomplish this by painting these human beings as being supernatural creatures who had mastered the most complex concepts, reacing the apex of gadlus all while still shitting in diapers??!!

Ultimately, our children (if they bother reading this crap) will say to themselves; o.k. these guys were super beings...but what the hell does this have to do with regular old me??

The idea is that these gedolim were regular, normal people like the rest of us. Only with will, determination, and perseverance were they able to reach great heights. This is where we can all learn something from these people. Gadlus, is not something that is relegated to a select few "yechidei segula". It is something that is shayach to every Jew on his or her own level.

All we need to do is apply ourselves, and we are ALL capable of reaching great spiritual heights...

The #@!$%^&* who write these gedolim books are so out of touch with reality...

I say it is actually the ultimate cop-out for these wackos....

They figure if they write about R' Moshe, R' Yaakov, R' Ruderman, R' J.B. Soleveitchick et al.. as if they were angels from birth, it somehow absolves them from even trying to achieve great things. Through their crappy books they hope to live vicariously through these great people...what a bunch of slobs...

I would read a good Mary Poppins book to my kids before I read them some of this psychobabble disguised as a gadol "bio". There certainly is more truth and entertainment value in the former.....

Monday, December 26, 2005 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger rodefemes said...

Rav Elyashiv's letter about metzitzah b'peh is a good example. I just re-read the English translation which says that the mohel should be checked to see if he has any open oral lesions, and if so, someone else should do the MBP.

Someone gave him wrong information. You can still be carrying oral herpes 1 and transmit it, without showing any lesions. This is what the experts from Hopkins, Columbia, and Einstein are saying.

So let's say he was told the correct information - he might have assur'd MBP! (And he still might.)

I predict - some rabbis will change their minds.

Monday, December 26, 2005 1:51:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...


I could not agree with you more.
Great writing and gedanks.

Monday, December 26, 2005 9:23:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Rodef Emes,
Excellent point about R' Elyashiv.

R' Shteinman does not believe that even with a machla in the mouth( machla in der mohel) by the mohel, should prevent a mohel from doing MBP.
"Nothing the Ribbono Shel Olam gave to us as a mitzvah can cause disease").
This is a direct quote that he personally told me.
So according to him, Fisher should do MBP without hesitation......

How's that for an eye opener???

Monday, December 26, 2005 9:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

rav shteinman had a one hour audience with uoj and deferred to his money.

A gadol.

(did i tell you the meeting lasted an hour?)

Monday, December 26, 2005 9:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Inquirer said...


I highly doubt you know who I am. Although everything I have written is true, I have posted in a way that ensures my anonymity.

That being said, I am less concerned with my identity becoming known than with you mistakenly thinking someone else wrote the comments. Just for kicks if you write the intials of who you suspect I am, I will confirm or deny.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Frum From Birth said...


Then let's agree to keep the status quo, since if it IS you then I would feel like it would only be fair if I told you who I was....and then we'd have to get together for a L'chaim!!

Whatever the case; sheves achim gam yachad!

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:38:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

L' chaim is a good idea, as long as you don't get carried away.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:26:00 PM  
Anonymous seeker said...

Lets look at another angle. What about the mohels' health visa vie the baby? Can a baby infect a mohel?An then the mohel can infect other children? The torah was not given to us to make ourselves stupid.It was given with the assumption that we are intelligent people.If theres a danger, then we must protect ourselves.Safety comes before all else.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:38:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...


Yes, the baby can affect the Mohel. Dick Pisher is blaming his herpes on the kids of baalei tshuvah.
Nice guy, huh?

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:48:00 PM  
Anonymous seeker said...

Just remember where a baal tshuva stands ,some of these hypocrites can never reach.

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:53:00 PM  
Blogger BTA said...

Kosher electricity.

Isn't it interesting that these guys didn't go a shabbos without electricity despite the obvious fact that it was produced by Jews on shabbos for decades?

If they were so chumradick, they shouldn't have used it at all, not even with a timer!

When I was in israel, one shabbos, the baal habayis kept yammering on about the chazon ish and he kept saying "oh, I'm going to get a generator for the apartment."

he had a big family. I said, if it's so bad, why do you use electricity in the meantime? If it's not so bad, then who cares?

These guys are all the same. Fake piety. Has any godol gone without electricity on shabbos or yom tov?

of course not! and chazon ish put them on notice.

Btw, these are the same guys who poskined we can't even turn on flourescent lights on shabbos, despite the fact that electricity is not "fire" and you aren't "building" when you turn the switch any more than you are when you close a window!

Here, you can see even shlomo zalman aurbach admit the foregoing. yet he went with the morons and agreed with the ban.

having a jew "mamash" building a fire for your precious electricity is a far worse aveira than turning on a flourescent light on shabbos.


Saturday, December 31, 2005 10:31:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...


The Chazon Ish was nehena(derived pleasure) from electricity on Shabbos as well.

It's a crock of crap, a new way to fleece the public.

Sunday, January 01, 2006 11:43:00 AM  
Anonymous emeslyaakov said...

This is the first time (I think) that I have been to your blog, and i came because of a reference to your fight against sex abuse.

In the mean time, it is best to stick to things that you know about, just as it is best for "gedolei Yisroel" and alleged gedolei Yisroel to stick to things that they know about.

If one chooses not to be frum, or not to be orthodox or not to be shomer shabbes, I am not really getting involved. However if he makes that choice, he also should not get involved in my choice otherwise.

In case you want background, I became a bt at age 16, 38 years ago, have semicha from YU and am part of the alleged new Sanhedrin which claims to have real real semicha (though this is at best doubtful). I am also a dayan for gittin, a shochet, sopher, mohel, cpa, computer technician, ba in biology. I am ultraorthodox without being isolated or insular.

As far as Israeli electricity, the israeli electric company does not have any nonJewsih workers. Despite any claims that everything runs automatically, that is really ludicrous. Malacha is done in the plants on Shabbes. The Thebinner Rav said that it is mutar to make the electricity for security and pikuach nephesh reasons for hospitals, and therefore other people can use the electricity. The Hazon Ish said that it is a hilll Hashem.

If you know a lot about hilchoth Shabbath, you know that if a person is ill enough, you may shecht for him, cut wood, make a fire and cook the food. all for the sick person. You may not cook extra for other people and they may not eat it.

The fact is obvious that the hospitals don't need the public electricity, they all have generators. if whole cities can operate on generators (such as B'nei B'rak) for Shabbes, then obviously a hospital can. As for defense purposes, they may neeed street lights and they may need electricity at the bases, but this does not allow anyone else to use the electricity.

So if you want to rant at hypocrisy and bad p'sak, you should be ranting at the oes who allow it.

Forget about public money. i spent my own private money to buy batteries and chargers and the special bulbs etc. to provide kosher electricity for my home. You are right that the food is not kosher - I make my own wine, bake my own bread, get private shechita, etc. Butthat doesn't make the electricity kosher.

I am not defending Rav Eliyashiv as being perfect, neither in p'sak nor in knowledge we are Jews, not christians or lubabs. But in this particular matter, it is about time.


Monday, May 15, 2006 5:55:00 PM  
Blogger emeslyaakov said...

And by the way, Rav Eliashiv and many others are already connected to privately owned and privately funded generators. He doesn't have to go without electricity because he has allready taken care of it for himself. he is now concerned for the tsibbur who may not have the ability to deal with it privately.

Here as in many areas on this blog, many bloggers don't show enough knowledge to distinguish between baseline mitsvah and chumra. The use of the Israeli Electric Company's electricity is a widely used kula. Refraining from using it is not a big chumra.

You guys rant and rave against mindless following of rabbonim, and I am against that more than you, but you must base it (if you wish to follow the Pharisaic worldview of the Torah) on thorough study of the gemorra and the realia.

Friday, June 09, 2006 9:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Turned out the author was right: frum American Yiddn WERE eating TREIF from Monsey while spending time and energy for "kosher electricity".... History proved you right...

Monday, September 18, 2006 11:45:00 PM  

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