Tuesday, September 20, 2005

The Yated's Attack With The Use Of The Big Lie!

The Yated's extremism has reached a new low. The person they are attacking is Rabbi Moshe Tendler the Rosh Yeshiva Of Y.U. who has battled against the Metziza B' Peh procedure by any mohel that has oral Herpes.

This is how these low-lifes' new strategy works.

Attack R' Tendler by diminishing his credibility by his father in-law, R' Feinstein z"l, therefore any of R' Tendler's positions as it relates to Halacha would be suspect.

Shame on these Jew haters.They will resort to any tactics to demean the people who disagree with their Fundamentalism.

All this on the eve of Rosh Hashana.
Reprinted from the Shema Yisrael Torah Network

Opinion & Comment
The Fallacy of Limited Horizon.

One day someone told HaRav Moshe Feinstein zt"l about a certain avreich — in fact his son-in-law — who had made a medical discovery that might prove to be a cure for cancer. R' Moshe responded that even if it was a sure cure for cancer, "is ess nisht vert di bittul Torah" (it would not be worth the bittul Torah that it caused). (Cited by HaRav Michel Shurkin in Megged Giv'os Olom, vol. I, and confirmed with Rabbi Y. Weinfeld, the source given there)How do we understand this story?

Some people have a very high opinion of the importance of a cure for cancer, since it is obviously of such great benefit to so many people. It is an accomplishment they can understand and relate to, as perhaps among the highest possible chessed services one could render. As loyal Jews, they also acknowledge the value of learning Torah which is so strongly stressed in our tradition. They recognize that learning Torah is important, but do not consider it overwhelmingly so.

If told such a story, they would be surprised — and perhaps even shocked — since they would interpret R' Moshe's statement as assessing the value of a cure for cancer as being lower than what they regard as the value of learning Torah. They would assume that they and R' Moshe share the same regard for learning Torah, and that his statement belittles the value of a cure for cancer. They would regard the statement as sort of an "ivory tower" view of the world, valuing abstract learning over accomplishment in the "real world."

In fact the chiddush here is in the other direction. As a leader of the Jewish people and as a prominent posek, R' Moshe certainly understood and recognized fully the value of a cure for cancer. He knew how many lives would be saved and how much suffering it would relieve. His constant involvement with halachic questions pertaining to treatment and the concomitant exposure to the pain and tribulation of all those involved, undoubtedly gave him a perspective on the value of such an accomplishment that was shared by very few.

Yet nonetheless, he considered the bittul Torah to be price that does not justify discovering a cure for cancer. This does not minimize or trivialize the value of such an achievement, but rather it recognizes Torah learning as something much greater still.

A true appreciation of Torah opens vistas that are simply not visible to those who are "empirical" and only believe in what they can see or feel. It does not trivialize or belittle the world of the body, but adds the world of the spirit on top of it.

It is only by properly appreciating the world of the spirit that we can properly value the world of the body. If our entire world is the material world, all human effort is trivialized.

If your scale only ranges from one to five, even those things that you place at the top will be undervalued. Humanists who revere humanity but deny G-d can never properly value human life. If the true scale, the scale of the Torah, ranges from one to a hundred, and the Torah places human life at, say, seventy-five, that is fifteen times higher than the humanists on their scale of five, even though it is considerably below the top of the Torah scale of values. (The choice of these numbers is arbitrary, and merely meant to illustrate the point. Their true magnitudes may be off in either direction.)

Perhaps this is why even such a "humanistic" mitzvah such as "Love your neighbor as yourself" is followed by the words, "Ani Hashem" (Vayikra 19:18). We must not forget the true scale, even when we focus on our fellows.

The gemora says that we should not travel with an am ho'oretz since he does not recognize that Torah is "our life and the length of our days" (Devorim 30:20). If he does not value his own life, the gemora explains, he will certainly not value the lives of others. If he does not live the Torah, if he does not form his values from the Torah, if his horizons are limited to the material world, he will not even recognize the value of his own life. If he does not internalize the scale of Torah, he will not be able to appreciate the value of his own life and the true potential that it encompasses.

If we understand the true scale of things our horizons will not be artificially limited. If we appreciate others we will appreciate ourselves, and if we appreciate ourselves we will be sure to do teshuvoh during the upcoming Days of Judgment.


Blogger David Kelsey said...

What are these guys talking about? Are they actually claiming R. Tendler knows the cure for cancer but doesn't divulge it because it's bittul's zman? What are they saying?

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:05:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

in other words, even if in fact Tendler discovered the cure, he could have and should have learned Torah instead of WASTING his time with this medical stuff, because
it has less value than Torah study!
First, nobody can verify that R' Moshe ever said it and in what context!
Second, it's a lie, R' Moshe would never had said that.
LIFE comes before anything,even if it's a safek of life and death, one may do m'lacha on Yom Kippur.

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:30:00 PM  
Anonymous the booger said...

I have a difficult time believing that R' Moshe ZTZ'L would say this.

Who is the author of this article, UO?

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:35:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

The Shema Yisroel Torah Network-The Israeli on-line arm of the Yated.

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:51:00 PM  
Blogger kjef1 said...

Many gedolom stories are suspect. Often a person might even ask the gedol if its true, and the gedol
is not even aware of any such event.Where is this type of extremism coming from? If you want to emphasize the importance of Torah Study, there are many other avenues to use than to involve poor cancer patients. Should we say than that when Rav Weismandel
,Zlb, Parachooted into occupied Europe to save Jews it was for nought because its Bittul Torah.
To save one person,you save a whole world. If these type of stories are not confirmed without any doubts what so ever it should be forbidden to repeat them. Its falsehood and harm can be done.
Also, to withhold a cure from a sick person that can potentially cure that person is Stealing and
miserly.The torah is Darchai noam, its ways are pleasant. What damage are we doing to our children with these mean hearted stories. Do we want to create people with no heart.If the story is found out to be false, then the book should be put in cherem.If someone can help a person live another day so that one more mishnah can be learnrd, is that bittul Torah?

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:00:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Do you believe the stuff they will do to get at people?

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:05:00 PM  
Anonymous the booger said...

I believe the Gemorah has an apt definition for this type of Shema Yisroel Torah Network "person":

Chosid Shotah.

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:07:00 PM  
Blogger kjef1 said...

Can we than blame some kids who hang out at pool halls than the bais medrash? If kids are fed this gabage, why should they be frum? They sense the hypocrisy right away.The Torah is Darchai noam, its a pleasant path leading to light, not darkness. It is trully sad

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:10:00 PM  
Blogger kjef1 said...

Can we than blame some kids who hang out at pool halls than the bais medrash? If kids are fed this gabage, why should they be frum? They sense the hypocrisy right away.The Torah is Darchai noam, its a pleasant path leading to light, not darkness. It is trully sad

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:10:00 PM  
Blogger kjef1 said...

Chosid shotah is right. Hes a danger to himself and others.He needs to see a doc. immediately, hes a danger.

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:13:00 PM  
Blogger kjef1 said...

THe torah i learned from my rabbeim is so much different than what im hearing now.

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:17:00 PM  
Blogger Ha-historion said...


I have asked this several times but it looks like someone doesnt want the truth to come out.

I am interested to know why you think Levi Kranz is a fraud?

I met him recently and he seems like a good guy. Am I missing something?

Thanking you in advance.

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:18:00 PM  
Blogger David Kelsey said...


you wrote,

"Can we than blame some kids who hang out at pool halls than the bais medrash? If kids are fed this gabage, why should they be frum?"

What pool hall? This stuff will turn off the kids who hang out in the library!

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:33:00 PM  
Blogger kjef1 said...

all i meant was that if a kid has a choose to hang out at a pool hall or a bais medrash, he will probably go to the pool hall. This garbage sets people off. It turns people away from Torah.

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:36:00 PM  
Anonymous sechel said...


Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:26:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

You are not using your sechel.
They believe this s***.
First they want to besmirch Tendler, and whack the guys working for a living.
If someone has the ability to cure cancer, and yet the Gadol Hador tells him it is bittul Torah, what would he say to a lawyer, accountant.......???
They will make up anything for THEIR insane agenda!

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:12:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

I do NOT know this Levi Kranz.!!!!!

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:13:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

It turns off mature intelligent people as it should!

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:25:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Who was you rebbe?

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:27:00 PM  
Blogger kjef1 said...

I had many great rabbaim with sechel, and many without any.if i tell you, people might be able to
figure out my identity? THe ones without seichel should not have been allowed to teach. They lacked common sense,and simple psychology.
Because a guy reads Mesilot yesharim a couple of times, and knows a couple blatt gemora a Teacher it does not make. A teacher that loves his talmidim,and
sees their potential thats a teacher. He can give a talmid mussar, not to destroy him but to build him up thats a teacher, a rebbe.

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:36:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Amen, V' Amen!!!

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tendler is a moser. Do some research. He wants to ban MBP altogether, so he called the health dept. on R. Fisher. He also pressed charges on a willy man for 'harassment'. Oh, lets not forget the mess his son is involved in. Whats the matter UOJ? The dirty laundry in your circles don't deserve to be aired? And there's more proof here than in any of your hearsay. JERUSALEM JEW

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 6:28:00 AM  
Anonymous the booger said...

Couple of things:

1. I have no doubt that some of the fathers of these Shema Koleinu-niks were front and center in criticizing R. Moshe ZTZ'L on several of his Piskei Halacha. Hello! What's that you say about if the shoe fits...? What are these schnorrers going to do years from now when they need money for their Mosdos and find out everyone is unemployed and sitting in Kolel?

2. Does Fisher the Mohel have herpes? Yes or No? Let's not impugn a Man's livlihood. A friend of mine who tested him in his Lab, says Fisher tested clean. I've been told that Fisher insisted also on being tested by the NYC Health Dept. and tested clean.
Let's get to the bottom of this (No pun intended).

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:27:00 AM  
Anonymous un-orthodox jew said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 9:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is NOT unorthodox above. It's a BSer - ha go f**k yourself! UO is fine.

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:01:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Thanks, Anonymous!
I am fine, BH!
Anytime you are not sure if it's me, just click on my name, if it does NOT take you to my site, it's a fraud.
I'm happy to know I have a few defenders!
Looks like the Boog may be coming over. Hey Boog whaddya think?
How about a guest blog from you?

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:22:00 AM  
Anonymous un-orthodox jew said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:29:00 AM  
Anonymous the booger said...

Thanks for the invite, UO, but I'm Switzerland/Finland.

Autonomy means I can give you a swift kick in dee tuchis when I think you deserve it.

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:30:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Jerusalem Jew!
You are a shmuck!
Tendler is convinced as many are that a mohel with oral Herpes should NOT be infecting babies.
Real bad guy.
He pleaded with Fisher to no avail.
They mocked him, broke his windows at his house, harrassed him....
Babies got sick and one baby died....
2-If someone broke your windows, would you call the cops?
6-Frum Jews are not suppose to make up bullshit stories about about what a real Gadol Hador said.
R' Feinstein never said that!
He was very proud of his son in-law!!!

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:31:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

I can handle it.
Actually, it keeps the adrenalin pumping!
You got the smarts, not like the nut case Shlomo!

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:36:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Someone posing as me figured out how to get into my homepage when you click on my name!!
I am tracing his web address and someone will be knocking on his door TODAY!
Hey, when you are sitting in the can, should we send you GLATT kosher food and with how many different hashgachas??
Do you eat Rubashkin, OU, OK,KAJ,???
Do you prefer Shvartzes as a cell mate or a cute white guy????
I got connections.
Also when you daven, do you need the gartel? I can get that in for you.
Oh let me know when I came come and visit!

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:45:00 AM  
Anonymous shlomo said...

you have a wild imagination-if you can track people you wouldve tracked me already-I AM The IMPOSTER

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:57:00 AM  
Anonymous shlomo said...

i only eat food under the UOJ

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Gunter Glieben Glauten Globen said...

"is ess nisht vert di bittul Torah"

Ugh. That's not even a Yiddish sentence. I have my doubts as to the veracity of this quote.

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unortho is a hypocrite of the first order as evidenced by accusing charedim of being narrow minded and then belittling people who mingle with minorities.

(And I quote) Jake, one more attack on you before I go.It is really easy to tell you grew up with the shvartzes.

Godd Shabbos, Jake Sharpton"
. All he does is either reply with a personal attack on your intelligence or completely avoid the point altogether as he is so fond of doing. You can bet debating was never one of his strong points in college.If he ever went to college. (graduated at 19 my ass)

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 3:43:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Hey Above Putz,
Your ass graduated at 19, what about your brain?

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 3:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As predicted, attacks on intelligence. Predictable people are not to be confused with intelligent people.

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:03:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

What intelligence?
Your in love with yourself, buddy boy!

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We actually have both lofty traits of unortho in his last post;

attacks on intelligence AND avoiding the point. Lucky us.

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:08:00 PM  
Anonymous itzik said...

How dare they lie about R' Moshe z"l.He NEVER would have said that.

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Nigel said...

"but this goes to 11"

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:51:00 PM  
Anonymous UOJjr said...

I had a dream. In that dream Rav Moshe told me that he never have said such a thing on cancer; rather it was on AIDS. He was learning torah and floating at the same time. Off to sliechos...

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:09:00 PM  
Anonymous the booger said...


Selichos is coming. Cool it.

And if Chodesh Elul doesn't tinkle your chimes, think of Rodney King and "jes get along."

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:42:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Hey Boog,
I gotta job to do, Slichos or no Slichos!

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:40:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Moshe Luzer Melech aka Martin
Luther King had a dream as well!
Sleep Tight.

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:43:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

You are sounding angry.
I like that!

Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:44:00 PM  

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