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Saturday, July 16, 2005

Rosh Yeshivas ,You Are Killing Our Children & Grandchildren

Rosh Yeshivas,Menahalim &Mashgichim.

You sleep well at night because you have parnassah and your children and grandchildren will have jobs waiting for them in your respective(not respectful)institutions, regardless if they are qualified or not.

You guys read this story, and if after you read it you are able to sleep at night, then you are much worse people than I thought.

Recently, I sat next to a very respected Lakewood resident at a simcha.
He spent a total of fifteen years in the yeshiva/kollel.

Every time he went to you explaining what a diificult time he was having, you encouraged him to stay in kollel, Hashem will provide.

Eleven children later, without any financial means whatsoever and deep in debt, he was forced to look for a job.
He would not take any job, after all he was a talmud chochom, and should be a rosh yeshiva.

After two years looking for a SUITABLE job, he begrudgingly took a job in a local talmud torah.
Although considered by many as an Iluy, that was the best and only job he was able to get.
He came from a baalibatashe family, with no money or yeshiva connections.

I was introduced to his wife who i guestimate was about forty, going on sixty.

We have common friends so I assume he felt comfortable talking to me, and of course I would never divulge his identity.

He asked me if I knew of a job for his son who was twenty years old.
He told me that although he wanted his son to stay in yeshivah, he was not cut out for it.

I asked a few basic questions, like how much of a secular education did he have.
I just wanted to confirm that at the minimum, he had a high school education.

He related to me that none of his sons had gone past the eighth grade.
I asked him what kind of job was his son looking for?

Now the guy I am talking to is a real bright guy, so he knew where I was going .

He asked if his son was able to work in the real estate industry.I told him to get anywhere, he would have to get a real estate license.

This is where he came apart.

We walked outside and this grown man with eleven children started bawling.
He said his son can hardly read and he was hiring a tutor to TEACH HIS TWENTY YEAR OLD SON TO READ ENGLISH!!!!!!

Do you guys get it??
This is America in the twenty first century, and his twenty year old son can hardly read the language of the land where he lives!

I asked him to be in touch, and we exchanged phone numbers.

We did keep in touch and the story unfolded.

He, the father, was a prodigy in an IVY LEAGUE yeshiva, and was encouraged to continue learning.
Hashem would provide, and certainly he would be grabbed up by a gvir (rich guy)for his daughter, and he would live happily ever after.

If he ever decided that he would want to go into chinuch, the yeshivas would line up to grab him as well.

Well, no gvir grabbed him, and he wound up marrying a nice girl, BUT NO GELT.
His chashuvah rosh yeshiva encouraged him to marry this girl, gave him a brocho,and assured him that Hashem will provide.

Life moves along,the kids keep coming,and this guy is struggling big time.
His shalom bayis is seriously affected,and the rosh yeshiva who is consulted and asked to intercede, starts questioning his talmid's bitachon and emunah.

This idiot rosh yeshiva, a member of the Moetzes, whose yeshiva mortgage is completely paid off, is questioning his talmid's bitachon, because there is NO MONEY FOR FOOD AND NO SHALOM BAYIS!!!!!!!!

This filthy behaima, mushchas, destroyer of our future generations , puts his own son in a rosh mesifta position,who if had to look for a job without his father, would be shoveling zevel for the local sanitation department.

This is why I am SCREAMING CHAI V'KAYIM.

THEY MADE THESE YESHIVAS PRIVATE BUSINESSES WITH YOUR MONEY!
THEY PUT THEIR SUB- PAR KIDS IN, TO BE MECHANECH YOUR KIDS,WHILE CREATING GENERATIONS OF SHNORRERS.

The BIG LIE is ,that there are no jobs waiting for anyone in kollel,unless they have very close family in the yeshiva business.

NOT ONLY ARE OUR CHILDREN BEING TAUGHT BY MORONS,THEY ARE BEING LED INTO A LIFE OF POVERTY, DISCONTENT AND MISERY!
How does one have bitachon when his life is coming apart based on false notions of what Hashem will or will not do?
How do you behaimas take vulnerable kids and molest their minds the way you do?
Have you no shame?

This story has been repeated thousands of times in different variations.
These rosh yeshivas are perpetuating this fraud because this is what keeps their businesses going.If there were no customers for their fraud,there would be no business. GUESS WHAT? HASHEM DOES NOT THROW MONEY DOWN, YOU HAVE BEEN SHNORRING YOUR WHOLE LIVES AS WELL!YOU KNOW YOU ARE PATHETIC PANHANDLERS,TIN-CUP, MONKEY AND ALL.

NO ONE WHO IS HONEST CAN DISPUTE THIS DOOMSDAY SCENARIO THAT HAS SLAMMED INTO OUR COMMUNITY.

Sure,there are SOME honest rosh yeshivas,BUT THEY ARE IN THE MINORITY OF MINORITIES.

Any rosh yeshiva that encourages a "regular guy" to stay in kollel until he is old and gray should be sent to the frontlines in Iraq with his black camouflage clothing.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS?

Some suggestions.

All yeshivas should be subject to an audit conducted by a lay persons' vaad,who will hire frum accountants to check the books.Every single mosad gets audited,no exceptions.

All hiring of rebbes should be done by an impartial vaad of rabbonim and rosh yeshivas.

Why Not?

Why can we not get this done?

What are they hiding?
This IS NOT THEIR MONEY,THIS BELONGS TO THE PUBLIC,AND WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO MONITOR OUR SO CALLED INVESTMENT.

Why not hire the absolute best rebbeim for our kids?
Why should we automatically hire and pay for your kids?
Enough with hiring ZEVEL to teach and mislead our kids.
There is a pool of thousands of men to pick from,let us get the absolute best.

Enough with concealing the amounts of PUBLIC MONEY used in excesses for your personal luxuries.

Enough with counseling ALL KIDS TO STAY IN KOLLEL FOR AS LONG AS THEY CAN.

Enough of NOT FORCING OUR KIDS TO GRADUATE HIGH SCHOOL WITH THE BEST GRADES THEY CAN GET. I AM TALKING TO YOU,ALZHEIMERS ARON FELDMAN,BALTIMORE AL FOR SHORT!

ENOUGH OF NOT FORCING THE MAJORITY OF YESHIVA BOYS TO PREPARE THEMSELVES FOR THE EVENTUALITY THAT THEY MUST PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILIES BY LEARNING A TRADE .

YOU ARE CAUSING TRAGEDIES UPON TRAGEDIES.

YOU WILL BE CURSED WITH DISEASES AND TZURES.

Let this be a call for all well meaning TRUE ehrliche Jews to rise up against this cancer that is metasticising throughout our communities.

They are cult leaders who rule by mental intimidation.

To hell with these destroyers of meaningful life for our children.

Rise up and drive out these charlatans and purveyors of fraud from our midst!

39 Comments:

Blogger daat y said...

Questioning his bitachon-way over the boundary.
Of course waiting till after 11 kids to look for work.

Saturday, July 16, 2005 11:06:00 PM  
Blogger Shlomo said...

What do you do for a living? I learned for almost 10 years in yeshiva incl. BMG, and when the time came I went to law school. I had 3 children at the time, I worked as a law clerk full time and I was an editor on the Law Review. I have many friends with similar stories. On the other hand I know countless others that live in Lakewood that never went to college and I wish I had their parnossoh.
Not all yeshivaleit are brainwashed clones. If you were, then your parents, NOT the rabbonim failed you. You are a disgruntled fool who HATES B'NAI YESHIVAH because since R' Soloveitchik died your beloved modorn orthodoxy withered into obscurity. You were probably a mediocre yeshiva bochur with an ego that made you thing you were the godol hador. Obviously nobody else thought so. As BOB Grant would say, "you're a fake a phony and a fraud." Why don't YOU go to school, get a nice job and stop crying about the big bad gedolim that ruined your life? If you're really up to it open your own yeshiva and run it your way.
Do anything BUT stop the crying and making yourself out as a helpless victim. BTW I'd bet my right hand you voted for Kerry.

Saturday, July 16, 2005 11:49:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Start using your left hand!

Sunday, July 17, 2005 12:12:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Shlomo,
Read my bio.(you can read slowly,take your time)
IF YOU WENT TO BMG,YOU KNOW I AM RIGHT.
If you got out in time and are making a living,you are in the minority and you know it.

Sunday, July 17, 2005 12:22:00 AM  
Blogger Shlomo said...

I read your bio. Didn't need to read slowly cuz there isn't much there. You graduated with honors. Does that mean your semicha had a gold star on it? BTW I don't recall any graduation at BMG. Now you're in real estate. What happened to the semicha? Shoulda bought up property in the early 1990's. I suppose your're earning a living. If not, since parnossoh comes from Hashem, maybe you should be m'fashfaish b'maasecha. Couldn't find anything that explains the problem? How 'bout this blog? I don't know anybody in BMG either now or in the past that's starving. I do have several friends however, who earn a lot of money as attorneys, accountants or like yourself in real estate etc... etc.... In fact 2 guys across the hall from me in the IRV are "groisse g'verim" today. In many cases BMG helped us with our transcripts in order to get into law school. No undergrad thanks to BMG.

Your remarks are patently and offensively false. Anybody with 1/2 a brain and a little siyatta d'shmaya will make it out there. Most yeshivaleit are not as stupid and naive as you depict them.

Sunday, July 17, 2005 1:06:00 AM  
Anonymous yirmy said...

Unorthox,
Stop pulling the wool over peoples eyes.Your 'example' is so patently pathetic it ain't funny.This yungerman has a problem with putting food on the table that has nothing to do with kolel.Lakewood is full of guys who after attending kolel got themselves decent or very decent parnasah.Why do you think it's growning so fast?

Sunday, July 17, 2005 2:32:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Shlomo,
So you got a BS degree from BMG! Wow,that is soooo special.
What other fraudulent BS are they doing?
I can tell you are the typical selfish black hat nut job,I make a
living...and I know 2 other guys who make a living!Wow....

Why don't you address the fact that there are 4250 guys sitting on their tuchis with no skills to do anything?
You small minded idiot!

Sunday, July 17, 2005 12:34:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Yirmy,
I checked the wool for shatnez;thought you would care about that,while families are being destroyed by the Ayatollahs.

Sunday, July 17, 2005 12:37:00 PM  
Blogger Shlomo said...

I happen to have a bachelors degree in Psychology with honors and a J.D., thank you very much. I did not get my degree from BMG. I just got some credits, but I know many others that got their degree the old fashioned way (I guess you're NOT the ONLY one) by sitting and learning all day for a number of years. If you spent any time getting an undergrad degree you'd know it's a joke.

In case you haven't been there lately the entire town is booming mostly because of alumni and others associated with the yeshiva that see an opportunity and take it. Sorry YOU missed the boat BOO HOO its all the rabbis fault YOU"RE not rich waaaaa waaaaa waaaaa. Un-Ortho is a poor mndless victim of the barbaric yeshiva system.

Sorry mommy and tatti didn't have any input, or your self for that matter. It's ALL the bad bad yeshivos fault. Of course to you their biggest aveirah is that they failed to recognize your gadlus. No wonder you're so bitter.

Well let's see, you don't care about Niddah, limud ha torah, emunas chachamim, loshon harah, r'chilus, lifney evair, etc... etc... etc... What do you care about in yiddishkeit? There are many many successful alumni from within the yeshiva system, sorry you're not one of them. Oh yeah I guess I'm just another "black hat nut job". I guess all the nut jobs leave yeshiva after many years and get a law degree.

Sunday, July 17, 2005 7:01:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Sunday, July 17, 2005 9:51:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

SHLOMO THE GREAT,SHLOMO THE GREAT,
EVERYBODY NOW-SHLOOOMOOOO,SHLOOOOOMOOO,SHLOOOMOOO

Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:26:00 PM  
Blogger Baltimoron said...

Dear Reb Un-orthodox,

I write to express hakoras hatov and to give you chizuk - tizku l'mitzvos, yiddishe nachas fun kinder, bracha v'hatzlacha, on and on and on amen pooh pooh pooh.

Now that I've established my own credentials I thought you might be interested in excerpts from an article I saved out of the Baltimore Sun published when Feldman got the job four years ago. Here are the first three or four quotes:

<"The Reformed and Conservative movements believe that the Torah as it's always been lived is outdated and therefore alterations have to be made," he says. But, "the Orthodox world is doing very well, and is very successful, without making these alterations. They're the only branch of Judaism that's flourishing, that has an extremely low rate of marriage assimilation [and] a sense of identity of the Jewish people. All of that is being lost by Reformed and Conservative Jews. Their children are intermarrying - they see no reason for being Jewish - and they're losing the battle for Jewish identity."

Politically active but not a citizen of Israel, he doesn't vote, sing "Hatikva," the national anthem, or fly the Israeli flag.

"I pray three times a day for the return of the Jewish people to Zion," he says, but "to the extent that the state of Israel seeks to redefine [itself] as a political entity as opposed to a religious entity, I can't accept it." At the same time, he says, only a fool could believe that if the state were disbanded, Jews would be safe.

Feldman believes the Palestinians "are out to kill us," but opposes Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank and Gaza: "Anyone with a little vision should have seen that we were entering these people into danger." He also believes the current 10-month-old outbreak of violence represents "a divine hand showing us that we made a mistake." Loss of Jewish identity sapped Israelis of the will to fight for their country, he says, leading to the Oslo agreement and a view that "peace is the only solution."

"We have to repent by rejuvenating our commitment to Torah values and Torah culture.">

So first he's fighting the less frum; then he doesn't accept the state of Israel (I wonder whether he accepts state aid); then he knew better when the "settlements" were established; then he knows the reason for the intifada; then comes the topper -- lack of Torah saps the will to defend the state and leads to peaceful urges. Does he believe in defending the state? He doesn't even recognize it. Oh, I forgot -- the only real protection is all of his students sitting on their tuchuses. It's all twisted enough to come from Alice in Wonderland, (a book even someone who went to T.A. might be able to read).

Remember that this is what he chose to say to the Sun when he got the chance of a lifetime to represent the community to tens of thousands of readers. Is this a manhig yisroel?

Sunday, July 17, 2005 11:01:00 PM  
Blogger Shlomo said...

Great response!!!! Guess I hit a nerve.

Sunday, July 17, 2005 11:13:00 PM  
Blogger David Kelsey said...

Un-Orthodox,

This post really hit a nerve. Are you aware how the Ba'al Tsuvah movement attempts to take good, middle class kids and change them into Welfare Recipients? They are told this is the Torah way, and they don't know enough to separate the hyperbole from the real law.

It is really disgusting. These secular Jews come with and open mind and an open heart to return to the fold, and they are brutalized into socio-economic devestation.

Monday, July 18, 2005 12:18:00 AM  
Anonymous gross said...

The baal t'shuva movement is killing yiddishkeit. For the most part, their version of Judaism is silly and "Christianized."

They take evrything literally and have the nerve to criticize frum-from-birth Jews, while they themselves ate traif, had premarital sex and were michalel shabbos!

Monday, July 18, 2005 12:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

shlomo,the only nerve you ever hit is between your legs.you must be starving for a liitle attention

Monday, July 18, 2005 1:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Gil said...

Are you aware of the great amount of unempolyed (or underemployed) P.h.d.'s there are coming out of the colleges, including ivy league schools. And with "downsizing" and "outsourcing" there are many unemployed programmers, MBA"s etc.

A prudent individual has to do a self analysis to determine where his aptitude is and what skills he can REALISTICALLY hope to bring to an employer.

But that in no way diminishes the value of the Higher Education Yeshiva system that we are fortunate to have. We are fortunate to have this system that has in fact produced great Talmidei chachamim, balaei batim and business leaders.

In our society, noone can force an individual to live or u/dertake a specific lifestyle. Ultimately the individual is responsible for any decision that (s)he makes.

Simply stated, responsibility starts and ends with the individual. Let's not play the blame game.

Monday, July 18, 2005 9:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gil:

Responsibility definitely lies for the most part with the individual, but the lfestyle is being fostered and cultivated by a higher system. Sure there are unemployed MBAs and PhDs but there are a lot more unemployed illiterate yeshiva guys who don't want to work and join responsible society. At least the PhDs are qualified PhDs while there are many (not all, but MANY) who don't deserve to be hiding in yeshiva

Monday, July 18, 2005 11:19:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

The thrust of my blog is that when a naive kid,and they are kids,are led down a primrose path of kollel or bust,add peer pressure to that,
they become UNABLE to make the appropriate decision for themselves.
I did not say get rid of the yeshiva higher education system.
I am saying that LONG TERM Kollel is for the few and not for the masses.

Monday, July 18, 2005 12:23:00 PM  
Blogger David Kelsey said...

Gross,

I think we are in agreement. Let the black hat community wash its holier than all hands of yucky secular Jewry, and leave Kiruv to the more responsible Modern Orthodox, less fond, familiar, and comfortable with enforcing radical amputation.

How about that, Gross? Sound win-win to you?

DK

Monday, July 18, 2005 1:06:00 PM  
Anonymous gross said...

David,

The problem with that is the MO community has little interest in large scale missionizing operations. The job then, is left to the right wing crowd who with nothing much to do, are left with all the time in the world....

Monday, July 18, 2005 2:20:00 PM  
Blogger David Kelsey said...

Gross,

It's true. The modern-Orthodox only care about themselves.

Monday, July 18, 2005 3:43:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Gross & David,
I have become really good friends with many BT,for them to give up their past lives is a big deal.
I am not quite sure if after tasting taam d'issura,I would be able to give it up.
I do not know the leadership of the BT movements,but some of the real GENUINE JEWS I know are BT.
I am involved in Partners In Torah,there is really a long journey for them.
Lets go easy on our brethren that are feeling their way through yiddishkeit.

Monday, July 18, 2005 4:32:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Baltimoron,
It's shocking what Aron Feldman turned into,one confused gray/black hatter.

I am really surprised Neuberger keeps him there,he is getting a reputation as a screwball.

The black hatters have no use for him,and now the Ner Yisroel type people are questioning what the heck can Neuberger be thinking?

Maybe they are BOTH losing it!

Monday, July 18, 2005 4:43:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Baltimoron,
BTW,thanks for the chizzuk!

Monday, July 18, 2005 4:47:00 PM  
Anonymous gross said...

Unorthodox,

What do you mean by genuine? If you say they are sincere or perhaps well-intentioned or even passionate, I might agree. But genuine? I'd think twice about that. Genuine to me doesn't mean obsessing over the least important aspects of Yiddishkeit.

Monday, July 18, 2005 8:25:00 PM  
Anonymous gross said...

I DON'T mean all of them either...

Monday, July 18, 2005 8:26:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Gross,
I agree with you.
Poor choice of adjectives on my part.

Monday, July 18, 2005 8:55:00 PM  
Blogger David Kelsey said...

Un-Orthodox,

I was not attacking Baal Tsuvas; rather, I was criticizing the black hatters who drive them meshugah for all sorts of strange reasons.

People becomes very frum when it's someone elses life and parnasa or social health in question. Very risk averse.

It's just awful.

Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:23:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

David,
I get it.
Thanks

Tuesday, July 19, 2005 5:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shlomo, your Amkus is astounding. What a blowhard.

Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:35:00 AM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Shlomo,
Any more amkus from you,or are you still reading my bio?

Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

11 kids. If he or his wife were worried about putting food ont eh table after, say, kid #6 maybe they should've thought about birth control.

Thursday, July 21, 2005 8:14:00 PM  
Blogger Lyss said...

Powerful stuff here.

Thursday, July 21, 2005 8:15:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Birth control???
The biggest no no in the world for these guys!
They believe there are no permitted birth control methods,except abstention.

These guys got way too much time on their hands for abstaining.

Friday, July 22, 2005 12:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can attest to the fact that as a so called Ba'al Tshuva many years ago, I was counselled by rabbonim and more advanced yeshiva bachurs (who I now recognize as "am ha'artzim g'murim")that it was "against halacha" to go to work. True, it was said, our forefathers had worked for a living, but now "times were different" and the only acceptable path for a Torah Jew was to learn full time. I received this advice at just about the time I was learning how to read aleph beis. So, trying to be a good Jew, I got engaged and made the decision that we were going to learn full time.

Things did not work out that way...after a few years in yeshiva, I realized it was not "against halacha" to work for a living. By this time, my family had disowned me, who had turned into a fanatic, but sincere, religious nut job of sorts. I had no money, no clothes, even and had to be supported by the kindness of others. I was terribly lonely, but basically unacceptable in the "shidduch" world. What normal girl in her right mind would marry a poverty stricken ba'al tshuva? I also discovered the species of yeshiva bochur who was proud to announce that he was planning to marry only a very rich girl. I found this widespread and apparently acceptable sentiment grossly offensive.
Eventually, the blinders fell away and I went to law school. I am no longer seen as a "ba'al tshuva." I make a nice living (thank G-d) have a bunch of kids and am a pillar of the community. I learn every at 6:30 AM, daven, and then I go to work. I hope what I am doing is not "against halacha"!

Tuesday, July 26, 2005 2:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I realize my last post should have been edited. I should have mentioned that my first shidduch failed...to a Ba'al Tshuva girl who went to be lose her interest in Torah. I think she eventually intermarried.

Tuesday, July 26, 2005 2:26:00 PM  
Blogger Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Anonymous,
You were fortunate to find a comfort level that works for you.

I know exactly what you mean.

There are so many people out there that are flunky losers,giving crazy advice.

Unfortunately,for every happy ending like yours,there are probably five very unhappy endings.

My next post will deal with this issue in more detail.

As long as there are no checks and balances in the Jewish leadership positions,we ALL are in serious trouble.
Imagine,if you will, our government,without one branch being able to veto and monitor the others.
Utter chaos!
That is what we have in Judaism!

A bunch of crazies,with some skills for fundraising,at the head of their insane, out of control institutions,teaching and preaching unadulterated BS.

Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:01:00 PM  
Blogger SM said...

In the process of becoming frum I had an offer to attend grad school on a scholarship with a stipend. My kiruv rabbi strongly advised me not to go to grad school and exerted all kinds of pressure (including social pressure). In the end I decided to enroll in grad school and later after completing school went off to yeshiva in EY. Today, thanks to my graduate degree I am making a good parnassah, but it has taken almost 20 years for the effects of the "kool aid" I was fed back then by him and my other rebbeim, to wear off...

Friday, January 06, 2006 9:57:00 AM  

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